Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Vuonna 2003 esitelty uuden sukupolven 9-3.
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Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

Hi all,

Sorry for writing in English - Important thing here are the vids ;)

First off... I apologize for my driving imperfections - I am no race driver so, I did ok. I was more worried with not crashing so, as per advice elsewhere, I drove at 80% of what I thought I could do... and it worked

My logging software was playing up so I only managed a video with metrics for the slowest lap (Lap #4). My fastest lap was Lap #3 and the rest... you can read from the videos descriptions

Here it goes:
Lap #4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPkGDEpLa0I

Lap #3 (my fastest)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhT9LIPIEg

Lap #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMAqJvHHBiY

Lap #1 (my first lap ever)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTcyf-4w1YI

...and Ahvenisto:
First stint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQRamRQm8XE

Second stint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh6UaRMmmEQ

Had loads of fun again but one thing is obvious... track car, the Saab isn't and on a small twisty track it became much more obvious :)

...ja kyllä, minä ymärrän suomea mutta puhua on vaikkea ja kirjoitta viellä enemman! :)
Ristom
"Hölösuu"
Viestit: 1715
Liittynyt: To Heinä 20, 2006 12:54

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Ristom »

Very nice videos, have to check them all later.. 90% of readers do understand english.. And the rest can still check the videos.
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

Surprised there was only one comment ;) guess most Sabistis here take a more gentle approach to their cars here :)

As a little bonus, an outside pic of my car going around the nurburgring:
http://i.imgur.com/YiKEk.jpg
karitammi
"Aero"
Viestit: 490
Liittynyt: Pe Syys 01, 2006 17:23
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja karitammi »

Interesting videos. And your driving looks good and smooth (to what I undestand). In order to get some discussion, maybe you could explain your experiences a little bit:
- How to get Nurnburgring? Was it a driving camp?
- Total cost of the trip?
- How was driving with SC Aero? Not much understeer, I felt. Although, you didn't change the gear a lot.
- Was difficult with slower and faster cars same time in the track?
- How much you consumed tires and fuel?
- Speeds used?

Thanks for sharing.
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

Thanks for asking some "right" questions - the whole experience is so intense that it is hard to know where to start...

I started planning to go there one year in advance - I looked for dates where there would be no events at the track set my heart on end of June/beginning of July.

I waited for January for the calendar to be published and moved on to book the ferry to Rostock. Due to the ferry schedules and the time to get from Rostock to Nurburg, this meant I would arrive to Rostock on Thursday ad 7AM and leave from Rostock on Tuesday at 16PM.

I booked a room in Adenau from Ringvilla for 5 nights, together with my friend that came from Portugal on his Megane RS (can be seen at the beginning of some videos)

The trip down from Rostock to Nurburg was very interesting - my first stretch of unlimited Autobahn served to find out how fast the Saab did go, which was 250 (GPS and limited). At that speed, it is like time travelling and after doing it for 1h30 or so, I realized that my full gas tank was almost gone, which was scary, but... I also realized that I had shave 200km out of my 700km trip down - it is a bit like a time travel.

- Altogether, cost wise, door-to-door, I spent about 1300-1500, all included. But I did not take a cabin on the ferry, which was a huge mistake, but would have also been €660 more to the whole price, unless you find others to split with.

- The car behaved surprisingly well on the Ring, understeering a bit only on the 1st lap because I still had the max tire pressure for the autobahn. I also studied the track in detail for one year and all the correct lines so, even though I had never driven it, I managed to get fairly good lines straight from the 1st lap.
The reason for not much gear changes is... that they are not needed :) You can almost do the whole track in 3rd/4th gear with a brief bit on 5th. Otherwise, if you look at the 4th video, where the metrics were working, you can see from the RPM and gear that there was no need for gear changes, at least for the V6 engine, which has a lot of Torque.
There is no video (mine included) that can prepare you for the track topography, cambers, height changes, sudden drops, tight and fast downhill turns, blind turns and the 3(!!!!) jumps that you HAVE to be aware of. That was my biggest surprise - I saw someone describe the thing as a rollercoaster ride and that is pretty much what it feels like.

- The fast vs slower cars... Well... I had Porsche GT3s and modified BMW M3 all over me the whole time, but it is usually ok, provided you keep in mind that it is not a race and you put the ego aside. I was more interested in not crashing than proving I am fast. The track is VERY dangerous and people die there all the time. Crashes are multiple per day and usually the track gets closed so... plan taking that into account.
As for slower cars, some people actually try to race you, defend lines and so on... errrr.... good for them! :) I did not risk overtaking where I did not feel was safe, specially because you have to brake after overtaking and braking and turning such a heavy car is not so easy. Also, the track is quite tight/narrow, something that was not apparent from the videos.

On weekdays tracks usually opens only 1h to 1h30 and if someone crashes at the start of the session... that's it for the day!

- Tires and fuel? well... I did not 0 meters but I estimate anything between 20-25. You are pretty much on full boost the whole time.

By the end of the lap, you should go drive around Nurburg for a while to cool the car - when you slowdown at the track exit you will smell everything... engine, coolant, clutch, brakes... :D ...rubber.
- Road tires can do 1 lap, max 2 before they desintegrate. Also, at the end of the lap, my stock brakes start to be faded and not working anymore.

As mentioned, on Autobahn, I hit 250kmh but mostly cruised at 200 on the few unlimited sections. Otherwise, limits were 130, 120 or 80/50 in the (way too many...) construction/repair areas.

On the track, you will be hard pushed to reach 200 or go over, and only for short periods. The famous big straight has (a little know fact...) a 120kmh speed limit on Tourist days and the police is there checking speeds sometimes.

I am glad to answer any other questions and share links for sites and vids I used as reference for this trip.
karitammi
"Aero"
Viestit: 490
Liittynyt: Pe Syys 01, 2006 17:23
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja karitammi »

Thanks for a very good report! The car also doesn't roll, nor uder or over steer, pretty smooth. Did you got ESP on? I've got ESP working couple times when entering slow turns on a bent road. Mine SC is 2.0 T A with stock suspension (fusion blue, ar yours).
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

karitammi kirjoitti:Thanks for a very good report! The car also doesn't roll, nor uder or over steer, pretty smooth. Did you got ESP on? I've got ESP working couple times when entering slow turns on a bent road. Mine SC is 2.0 T A with stock suspension (fusion blue, ar yours).
The Aero suspension is very different from the "Stock" one - more stiff and much less roll.

I left the ESP on for peace of mind but to be very honest, I wasn't looking down to see if it was triggered. I don't think it was cause the drive was very smooth and I didn't feel the engine cutting at any time.

Ahvenisto was a different story, though... It decided to disable itself there with the familar "Stability control failure..." message :)
...I suspect a failing hub. I am sure the Nurburgring didn't help there.
karitammi
"Aero"
Viestit: 490
Liittynyt: Pe Syys 01, 2006 17:23
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja karitammi »

^You notice it if ESP comes in action. The case I referred was without any throttle and under good traction conditions. Saab steers pretty well. You wil notice from weight transfer and hear brakes.
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

karitammi kirjoitti:^You notice it if ESP comes in action. The case I referred was without any throttle and under good traction conditions. Saab steers pretty well. You wil notice from weight transfer and hear brakes.
Ah! I understand now what you mean - hmmm... I don't think it was ever active - the car had plenty of grip and never let go and I wasn't throwing it into the corners, as you said, I was driving smoothly to keep it under control and get fast out of corners.

If anything, there is a place where it might have helped me during the 3rd lap of the Nurburgring at 7:43 into the video (or 7:32 in lap time) but I think I reacted before the ESP kicked in to correct when it actually oversteered (!!) :)
Rafu
"Hölösuu"
Viestit: 1714
Liittynyt: Ti Helmi 08, 2005 13:51
Paikkakunta: Kangasala
Viesti:

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Rafu »

Great entertainment. Thanks for these!
"In an insane world a sane man must appear insane"
#2558, 9-5 Vector wagon A 2002, 9-5 vector wagon A 2008
apu,apupoika
"Hölösuu"
Viestit: 2652
Liittynyt: Ti Maalis 06, 2007 10:39

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja apu,apupoika »

Jaco2k kirjoitti:
karitammi kirjoitti:Thanks for a very good report! The car also doesn't roll, nor uder or over steer, pretty smooth. Did you got ESP on? I've got ESP working couple times when entering slow turns on a bent road. Mine SC is 2.0 T A with stock suspension (fusion blue, ar yours).
The Aero suspension is very different from the "Stock" one - more stiff and much less roll.

I left the ESP on for peace of mind but to be very honest, I wasn't looking down to see if it was triggered. I don't think it was cause the drive was very smooth and I didn't feel the engine cutting at any time.

Ahvenisto was a different story, though... It decided to disable itself there with the familar "Stability control failure..." message :)
...I suspect a failing hub. I am sure the Nurburgring didn't help there.
I agree that sport-suspension vs. stock.
Sport is nice compromice between comfort and sportiness. And it's not too stiff for "sunday driving" and especially when you are driving at the average Southern Finland winter conditions, first wet snow on the road, then it's freezing and as we all have noticed that might be sometimes quite pumpy!! :D
So, are you going to come to Kemora on September 15th??
(Sorry my poor English! :D )
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

apu,apupoika kirjoitti: So, are you going to come to Kemora on September 15th??
(Sorry my poor English! :D )
Your English is 10 times better than my Finnish ;)
...and I am not native English either so, no worries! ;)

Kemora? Hmmmm... I am a bit short of "time" right now so I am afraid it will have to wait for next "season". My Ahvenisto guru had already thrown that idea at me but I cannot do it all, specially since right now I am a bit in a... let's say... forced holiday :)

I think one more Ahvenisto will come before the snow sets in, but that's it.

On a more positive note, if I do it next year - provided I get a job anytime soon, that is, I will have some things upgraded on the car, namely EBC discs/pads and a ECU remap, if I find one that doesn't completely break the bank - I think most "established" tunes are asking a bit too much.
SiipiSaapi
"Aero"
Viestit: 347
Liittynyt: To Kesä 10, 2010 08:51
Paikkakunta: Vantaa

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja SiipiSaapi »

http://tinyurl.com/c3ysgvu ....and still love it :D
EX rides: 9-5 Aero,VW Golf GTi,BMW M3,VW Golf GL,Renault Clio Sport,Toyota Celica 18R-G Twin-cam,Toyota Corolla DX
Jaco2k
"Kaasari"
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Huhti 30, 2011 01:02

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja Jaco2k »

SiipiSaapi kirjoitti:http://tinyurl.com/c3ysgvu ....and still love it :D
Well... you should do something about it! ;) it was for a long time on my bucket list, took one year to prepare, spent more money than I could but it was worth it all. I put the overall experience next to my child's birth.

If you are a true petrol head it is something you simply have to do - don't sit wondering, just go there.

There are many ways to get the thing done and some might be cheaper, but I specifically wanted to drive there in my car and... drive my car there ;)
SiipiSaapi
"Aero"
Viestit: 347
Liittynyt: To Kesä 10, 2010 08:51
Paikkakunta: Vantaa

Re: Saab 9-3 Aero - Nurbugring and Ahvenisto

Viesti Kirjoittaja SiipiSaapi »

How about: Allways wanted, never did it, and got the sticker for it :lol:

My friend visited ring couple years back to compare his beemers (prev 5-ser and new 3-ser). If you import a car around Cologne & Frankfurt it would make a nice side trip.

btw: also autobahns in the Rhine-Ruhr Area to reach the ring 8)
EX rides: 9-5 Aero,VW Golf GTi,BMW M3,VW Golf GL,Renault Clio Sport,Toyota Celica 18R-G Twin-cam,Toyota Corolla DX
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