V6 viritys
V6 viritys
Paljonkohan on otettu L81 v6 koneista vaparina/ahdettuna? Onko mekaanisesti heiikkoja kohtia? Paljonko kansi virtaa vakiona? Paljonko konetta voi kierrättää? Näin ei pitänyt käydä, mutta voiman pimeän puolen vetovoima on liian suuri...
-
Kojootti5
- "Tuplakaasari"
- Viestit: 85
- Liittynyt: Pe Touko 25, 2007 08:15
- Paikkakunta: Halsua/Seinäjoki
Re: V6 viritys
Tuolta ocf:ltä kannattaa lukea. Jonkun 250 hp virtaa vakiona jos en väärin muista. Joku oli suomessa muistaakseni yli 300 penkittänyt aika rankoilla modeilla.
Kierroksia tuo kuulemma kestää 7250 rpm, jonka rajoittaa heikko kampura.
Ahdettuja en nyt muista, mutta eiköhän niistäkin ole jotain 400 hepan luokkaa otettu
Kierroksia tuo kuulemma kestää 7250 rpm, jonka rajoittaa heikko kampura.
Ahdettuja en nyt muista, mutta eiköhän niistäkin ole jotain 400 hepan luokkaa otettu
Re: V6 viritys
Huh, yli 90 sivua lähinnä pakoputken vaihtamista ja kaasuläpän porttausta 
Vaparina on otettu kotimaassa yli 300 hp ja muualla vaparina ilmeisesti +400 hp. Ahdettuna ei oikein löydy tietoa. Paras juttu 2005 vuodelta:
Tuning the X30XE
The most common mods for this engine are replacing the oil/water heat exchanger with an air/oil cooler, as the oil/water one has a tendancy to die and leak oil into the water system, lightening the flywheel, as the std one is very heavy (in the region of 15 kg), a mild set of cams, and enlarging the inlet butterfly. These are all mods which can be done without cracking open the engine.
Tuning the engine further than some bolt on mods is quite an undertaking as the engine has quite a few weak spots.
The rods are quite weak due to their (lack of) width, the water pump is too small for forced induction, the bearings need replacing with stronger items, and the rear cylinders overheat.
The rods can be resolved by replacing with saab 3.0L rods which have an oil squirter drilled into them (to lube the small end, the std rods rely on splash lubrication), welding strengthening strips onto them (yuck! lol), or by getting some steel rods made. Steel rods are expensive (Arrow Precision quote £200/rod for a batch of 6). Ouch! Still, they should be good to around 9000rpm. If you've won the lottery, Swindon Race Engines will make a custom steel crank and rods for £3700 + VAT. They can also stroke it out to 3.4L
The cooling can be resolved by cutting slots between the water jacket in the center so that water can flow out of block cooling jacket and into the radiator outlet/engine water inlet. I'll post up some more information and photo's on this mod when I've modded my 3.0L block. Many thanks to Frank Denker for this information.
I've not investigated a solution to the bearing problem yet, I'll update when I know more.
It isn't all bad news thought. The pistons have nice deep pockets, the heads can be opened up nicely, and valvetrain tuning parts from the X16XE (1.6 16v ecotec) can be fitted. The engine has lots of potential, it'll just take a lot of work to achieve it.
The engine will really benefit from headwork (some details of my work here http://www.valvers.com/v6/v6headwork.html ). bigger valves (+1mm) can be fitted (standard is 32mm inlet and 28mm exhaust) if the seats are cut carefully. This would put it nearly on a par with the C20XE head design, the main difference being the steeper angle of the exhaust valves
The standard intake system is quite restrictive, and can be improved on. Here's a link to my home grown design..... http://www.valvers.com/v6/inductionsystem.html
The engine has been tuned up to around 420BHP in a normally aspirated state of tune by Swindon Race Engines though this will set you back £18k + vat. SRE also have developed a very compact roller barrel induction kit for it, which enables a standardish engine to produce 320BHP@7000rpm, the only other mods being solid lifters and a set of mild cams. The solids are put in to aid accurate cam timing, and to stop belt kick-back if the engine's been standing for any length of time and the hydraulic lifters have drained. However, this induction kit isn't cheap, and at 4000GBP+vat (just the throttles, trumpets and injectors), it's a remortgage the house and pimp the cat job.
The engine's also been supercharged to good effect by a dutch nutter called Frank Denker, who achieved 400bhp+100bhp of nitrous. It was his tuner which solved the cooling problems that forced induction conversions have.
Billetti akseli löytyy täältä http://www.swindon-engines.com/crankshaft/index.htm 2200 puntaa
Kankia http://www.pureperformancemotorsport.co ... cts_id=203
Männät saa teetettyä JE:llä jos ei muuten löydy (n. 1000 e)
Turboksi pari pientä tai yksi isompi (Holsetti) tialin porteilla.
Suuttimet ja pumppu tarvii varmaan vaihtaa suurempiin.
Softan kanssa varmaan oma taistelu.
n. 400 hp tavoitteeseen ei varmaan tarvita billetti-akselia.
Alle 14 s pitäisi vähintään päästä 400 m paikaltaan...
Edit: 400 hp vapari lotus samalla koneella
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2 ... -Exige.htm
Tällaiset ohjeet:
There are several issues to solve before turbocharging or supercharging a V6. Mine indeed was the 3.2 V6 supercharged (400bhp) and with nitrous (500 bhp).
1. Making extra cooling slots for the back cylinders as described above.
2. Use the later type 2.5 cylinder heads (e.g. vectra gsi with natrium filled valves), as the originals cannot withstand the increased heat and oilpressure.
3. Reinforce the conrods as they will simply snap.
4. Make stronger crankshaft bearings.
5. Use a larger radiator, and have the thermostat open sooner and the fan on earlier and longer.
6. Use a large inter-cooler (over 12 litre).
7. Use low compression pistons.
In the long run, the F28 will not be able to cope with the enormous torque. In my case up to 400 lb/ft. These are the basic rules, if you want to go over 350 bhp. I hope this helps.
Vaparina on otettu kotimaassa yli 300 hp ja muualla vaparina ilmeisesti +400 hp. Ahdettuna ei oikein löydy tietoa. Paras juttu 2005 vuodelta:Tuning the X30XE
The most common mods for this engine are replacing the oil/water heat exchanger with an air/oil cooler, as the oil/water one has a tendancy to die and leak oil into the water system, lightening the flywheel, as the std one is very heavy (in the region of 15 kg), a mild set of cams, and enlarging the inlet butterfly. These are all mods which can be done without cracking open the engine.
Tuning the engine further than some bolt on mods is quite an undertaking as the engine has quite a few weak spots.
The rods are quite weak due to their (lack of) width, the water pump is too small for forced induction, the bearings need replacing with stronger items, and the rear cylinders overheat.
The rods can be resolved by replacing with saab 3.0L rods which have an oil squirter drilled into them (to lube the small end, the std rods rely on splash lubrication), welding strengthening strips onto them (yuck! lol), or by getting some steel rods made. Steel rods are expensive (Arrow Precision quote £200/rod for a batch of 6). Ouch! Still, they should be good to around 9000rpm. If you've won the lottery, Swindon Race Engines will make a custom steel crank and rods for £3700 + VAT. They can also stroke it out to 3.4L
The cooling can be resolved by cutting slots between the water jacket in the center so that water can flow out of block cooling jacket and into the radiator outlet/engine water inlet. I'll post up some more information and photo's on this mod when I've modded my 3.0L block. Many thanks to Frank Denker for this information.
I've not investigated a solution to the bearing problem yet, I'll update when I know more.
It isn't all bad news thought. The pistons have nice deep pockets, the heads can be opened up nicely, and valvetrain tuning parts from the X16XE (1.6 16v ecotec) can be fitted. The engine has lots of potential, it'll just take a lot of work to achieve it.
The engine will really benefit from headwork (some details of my work here http://www.valvers.com/v6/v6headwork.html ). bigger valves (+1mm) can be fitted (standard is 32mm inlet and 28mm exhaust) if the seats are cut carefully. This would put it nearly on a par with the C20XE head design, the main difference being the steeper angle of the exhaust valves
The standard intake system is quite restrictive, and can be improved on. Here's a link to my home grown design..... http://www.valvers.com/v6/inductionsystem.html
The engine has been tuned up to around 420BHP in a normally aspirated state of tune by Swindon Race Engines though this will set you back £18k + vat. SRE also have developed a very compact roller barrel induction kit for it, which enables a standardish engine to produce 320BHP@7000rpm, the only other mods being solid lifters and a set of mild cams. The solids are put in to aid accurate cam timing, and to stop belt kick-back if the engine's been standing for any length of time and the hydraulic lifters have drained. However, this induction kit isn't cheap, and at 4000GBP+vat (just the throttles, trumpets and injectors), it's a remortgage the house and pimp the cat job.
The engine's also been supercharged to good effect by a dutch nutter called Frank Denker, who achieved 400bhp+100bhp of nitrous. It was his tuner which solved the cooling problems that forced induction conversions have.
Billetti akseli löytyy täältä http://www.swindon-engines.com/crankshaft/index.htm 2200 puntaa
Kankia http://www.pureperformancemotorsport.co ... cts_id=203
Männät saa teetettyä JE:llä jos ei muuten löydy (n. 1000 e)
Turboksi pari pientä tai yksi isompi (Holsetti) tialin porteilla.
Suuttimet ja pumppu tarvii varmaan vaihtaa suurempiin.
Softan kanssa varmaan oma taistelu.
n. 400 hp tavoitteeseen ei varmaan tarvita billetti-akselia.
Alle 14 s pitäisi vähintään päästä 400 m paikaltaan...
Edit: 400 hp vapari lotus samalla koneella
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2 ... -Exige.htm
Tällaiset ohjeet:
There are several issues to solve before turbocharging or supercharging a V6. Mine indeed was the 3.2 V6 supercharged (400bhp) and with nitrous (500 bhp).
1. Making extra cooling slots for the back cylinders as described above.
2. Use the later type 2.5 cylinder heads (e.g. vectra gsi with natrium filled valves), as the originals cannot withstand the increased heat and oilpressure.
3. Reinforce the conrods as they will simply snap.
4. Make stronger crankshaft bearings.
5. Use a larger radiator, and have the thermostat open sooner and the fan on earlier and longer.
6. Use a large inter-cooler (over 12 litre).
7. Use low compression pistons.
In the long run, the F28 will not be able to cope with the enormous torque. In my case up to 400 lb/ft. These are the basic rules, if you want to go over 350 bhp. I hope this helps.
Re: V6 viritys
Kuulostaa halvalta. Taman luettuani en pida ihmeena etta SAAB pysytteli varsin maltillisessa litratehossa taman moottorityypin kanssa.
9-5 2.0 kevytaero TD04-15 -00
LEAF 40 -18
Sprinter 313 CDi matkailuauto -14
LEAF 40 -18
Sprinter 313 CDi matkailuauto -14
Re: V6 viritys
Kanget ja männät vaihtamalla 500 hp on ok. Tuolla saksalaisella hepulla on remmiahdettu, missä ahdin ottaa n. 100 hp akselilta ja sekin teho täytyy tuottaa. Turbo on vähän eri juttu ja vetokäytössä lämpöongelmia ei yleensä tule. Saabin kannessa on ymmärtääkseni natrium täytteiset venttiilit. Tuon kun voi tehdä niin monella tapaa. Tuo puhui 550 Nm väännöstä. Jos ottaa ahtimen vaatiman tehon huomioon, niin vääntö akselilla on n. 700 Nm. 400 hp tehoa on 400 Nm/7000 rpm tai 570 Nm/5000 rpm. Vääntö (sylinterin huippupaine) yleensä alkaa rikkomaan osia...
Kansiset:
"Suhteellista on kalleus, toki kansiin saadaan uppoamaan vaikka kuin monta tonnii, mutta noi kannet makso 1500e/pari (sis. koneistukset /porttauksen/virtausmittaukset /tason /ns oheistyöt)
Vakiona V6 kannet virtas vanhan penkin mukaan 297Hp / 9,60 mm /pako 60% ja viritettynä 353 hp/9,60mm /pako 60%. Huom ja virtauslisä läpi nosto alueen n. 15%. Kansi on imu/pako suhteeltaan imuvoittonen.
Toi moottorihan on vakio puristussuhteella, kansi vakioventtiilein /nostimin. Sanoisin ettei paljo edullisempaa kokoonpanoa vaparina voi tehdä mikäli haluaa päästä + 100hp/litra tehoihin käsiksi."
...Siis 312 hp/7000 rpm ja 325 Nm/6000 rpm 3.0l vaparissa. "Alkuperäisellä boxilla (Karalan muokkaama softa) ja alkuperäiset pakosarjat ja suuttimet, isompi putkisto"...
R4 koneen tekeminen onkin halpaa ja helppoa
http://gmtunersource.com/racertech/ecot ... n/download
Kaikki ne kuitenkin hajoaa jossakin vaiheessa. Lopulta tehdään kansi ja lohko billetistä. Sitten ne alkaa vasta kestämään...
Kansiset:
"Suhteellista on kalleus, toki kansiin saadaan uppoamaan vaikka kuin monta tonnii, mutta noi kannet makso 1500e/pari (sis. koneistukset /porttauksen/virtausmittaukset /tason /ns oheistyöt)
Vakiona V6 kannet virtas vanhan penkin mukaan 297Hp / 9,60 mm /pako 60% ja viritettynä 353 hp/9,60mm /pako 60%. Huom ja virtauslisä läpi nosto alueen n. 15%. Kansi on imu/pako suhteeltaan imuvoittonen.
Toi moottorihan on vakio puristussuhteella, kansi vakioventtiilein /nostimin. Sanoisin ettei paljo edullisempaa kokoonpanoa vaparina voi tehdä mikäli haluaa päästä + 100hp/litra tehoihin käsiksi."
...Siis 312 hp/7000 rpm ja 325 Nm/6000 rpm 3.0l vaparissa. "Alkuperäisellä boxilla (Karalan muokkaama softa) ja alkuperäiset pakosarjat ja suuttimet, isompi putkisto"...
R4 koneen tekeminen onkin halpaa ja helppoa
http://gmtunersource.com/racertech/ecot ... n/download
Kaikki ne kuitenkin hajoaa jossakin vaiheessa. Lopulta tehdään kansi ja lohko billetistä. Sitten ne alkaa vasta kestämään...